Goth Hate Crimes Petition. URL here...

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Post by Dave-il-man » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:59 pm

Its now standing at 6825 its certainly galloped some
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Post by oldgoth » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:42 pm

It's 11.42pm and we're on 6912!

Come on!
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Post by Pitchfork Girl » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:33 am

Almost got to the 7000 mark.

This petition is now closed, as its deadline has passed.

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Widen the definition of 'Hate Crime', to include crimes committed against a person or persons, on the basis of their appearance or subcultural interests. More details

Submitted by Ade Varney – Deadline to sign up by: 28 March 2008 – Signatures: 6,937


Well done everyone for getting behind this. I think that the amount of signatures is enough to make the government sit up and listen and preferably legisilate for something worth while rather than the usual petty crap they churn out.
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Post by Zoggi » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:53 pm

The decision:

"The Government's current definition of 'hate crime' is as follows:

* A 'hate incident' is any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate or prejudice.
* A 'hate crime' is any incident which contributes to a criminal offence, perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by prejudice or hate.

Within this broad definition, legislation focuses on hate crimes on the basis of race, faith, sexual orientation, disability and gender identity - and it is these categories which are currently monitored. We do not plan to extend this to include hatred against people on the basis of their appearance or sub-cultural interests. These are not intrinsic characteristics of a person and could be potentially be very wide ranging, including for example allegiance to football teams - which makes this a very difficult category to legislate for. However, it is important to remember that this is within a legal framework that assumes that all violence is a very serious matter; and in addition, judges have discretion to look at a wide range of mitigating and aggravating factors when they are sentencing - and are likely to view attacks motivated by hatred of this kind as very serious indeed."

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page15282.asp

Hmm... I guess that's a "yes and no" answer.

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Post by Engine of Excess » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:59 pm

Hmm... I guess that's a "yes and no" answer.


Did anyone expect any different? :(

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Post by Wanderlust » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:02 pm

Call me a passimist, but that says 'shot down' to me :cry: I don't much care to be compared to Football fans, either :shock:

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Post by Zoggi » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:04 pm

Yeah, it doesn't really surprise me. That said, I think they did explain rather well that the broad definition does cover pretty much any type of prejudice, it's just that they have chosen to monitor certian specific groups. In effect, it is already a hate crime to target anyone based on any form of prejudice.

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Post by Zoggi » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:06 pm

Wanderlüst wrote:Call me a passimist


Is that a pessimistic pacifist?

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Post by Engine of Excess » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:06 pm

I don't much care to be compared to Football fans, either


What's wrong with football fans? There's plenty in the Goth world. :wink:

The statement from the government made me "laugh" where it says about sub-cultural interests not being intrinsic. I wasn't aware that faith was intrinsic, but that seems to be covered. Mmm ... I wonder why. :roll:

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Post by Engine of Excess » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:08 pm

Zoggi wrote:
Wanderlüst wrote:Call me a passimist


Is that a pessimistic pacifist?


Nah, it's a brief fog bank.

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Post by Engine of Excess » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:10 pm

Zoggi wrote:Yeah, it doesn't really surprise me. That said, I think they did explain rather well that the broad definition does cover pretty much any type of prejudice, it's just that they have chosen to monitor certian specific groups. In effect, it is already a hate crime to target anyone based on any form of prejudice.


If the government only monitor certain groups, and to Hell with the rest of them, aren't they discriminating?

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Post by Eternity » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:13 pm

I have to admit, it is a rather Labour answer. *sigh*

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Post by Wanderlust » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:19 pm

Engine of Excess wrote:
What's wrong with football fans? There's plenty in the Goth world. :wink:


That maybe (and I've been known to tune in on the odd England match), but still... It doesn't seem right. It's like apples and oranges. I'll try to voice my words better later, hmph.

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Post by MissBillie » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:21 pm

I don't suppose I should have expected any better.

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Post by Zoggi » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:17 pm

Engine of Excess wrote:
Zoggi wrote:Yeah, it doesn't really surprise me. That said, I think they did explain rather well that the broad definition does cover pretty much any type of prejudice, it's just that they have chosen to monitor certian specific groups. In effect, it is already a hate crime to target anyone based on any form of prejudice.


If the government only monitor certain groups, and to Hell with the rest of them, aren't they discriminating?


I don't know, maybe they are dedicating resources to tackling hate crimes against those groups because they are the most frequent. I should think if goths suddenly started getting attacked up and down the country at the same rate as asians, for example, then they probably would devote more time to tackling it. As it is, there are lots of incidents including one or two high profile ones, but we don't hear about anti-goth sentiments on the same level as racism.

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Post by Scarlett » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:47 pm

Zoggi wrote:Yeah, it doesn't really surprise me. That said, I think they did explain rather well that the broad definition does cover pretty much any type of prejudice, it's just that they have chosen to monitor certian specific groups. In effect, it is already a hate crime to target anyone based on any form of prejudice.



That was pretty much exactly what I thought when I read the response.

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Post by Gamecat » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:33 pm

It's a great comfort to know that judges are "likely" to sentence heavily in any case of hate-inspired violence. :? Although Sophie's judge does seem to have a promising attitude (fingers crossed), I don't see that being the norm when establishment figures are called on to show respect for a wierdo like us. IMO they're more likely to take the view that we bring trouble on ourselves.
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Post by elder » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:35 pm

Just read the official response too.
And it does read as "We've had your money, now fuck off".

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Post by spellfire » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:33 pm

Engine of Excess wrote:The statement from the government made me "laugh" where it says about sub-cultural interests not being intrinsic. I wasn't aware that faith was intrinsic,

must admit did think to myself at least in England religion is a second to sub-culture I know some other countries take it more seriously (and I'm not saying ofcorse if your religious you don't take it seriously just that religion isn't an overwhelming factor in this country) and Christianity doesn't get much wight with politics lets face it know theres a strip joint with its back yard onto a church the church fought and was ignored lol

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Post by Bloodflowers » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:22 pm

Missed the deadline but good to see how many people signed it x

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